He made a committment to the choir to be there. Do I want to teach him not to keep his word? He didn't join the choir in a vacuum. There are other people in it.
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You are right. And now, because money is not unlimited, I will be hesitant to put him in to any other costly programs. He has a history of starting and leaving projects, classes, programs, etc..
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That is something you came up with. He has never expressed any such thing. It's about him and how bored he is. Not how he'd help the choir by leaving.
>>> my daughter swore that she loves schoolwork, and would love to do it at home, yet now that she has her free computer from the online school, she asks, "why would I actually read the book to get the right answers, it'd take a lot of time". and she sits at her computer all day playing club penguin. aaron has done the exact same thing.
> Good for them! They've discovered how to obtain and utilize a resource to do what they want to do! That's fantastic.>>>
I don't think you understand the situation here. You are congratulating them for figuring out how to steal. They made an agreement with the online school to do the schoolwork, knowing that they would have use of a computer during the school year. It was not just given to them. It is borrowed, or you might say purchased, through them doing the school work. Dh and I would end up in some kind of trouble possibly, legally or financially, allowing the kids to keep the computers and not do the work. They have monthly tests to do and send in in order to appear that they are doing the work.
They knew this from the beginning. I don't think that they understand, or want to understand that they can't just keep the computers. I am the contact between their "teachers" and them. I am the one responsible ultimately for the computers, and their use, and the agreement.
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They agreed to in order for the school to send them the computers.
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I agree with you. I have one totally unschooled child by choice. 3 of them chose to do the online school, and 2 out of those 3 are backing out because they don't like the work. I want them to be able to make that decision. Dh and I have told them that they don't have to do the schoolwork, they can just send the computers back and they won't have to do any of the work... they can't make the decision and get angry if we try to make if for them. We've reached a compromise with our 7 year old, that we'll put the computer away for a week, to allow him to see more clearly if he wants to keep it or not. That way he can decide if he wants to do the schoolwork during that week or not, without the extra allure of that particular "personal" computer. He seems to be just fine sharing our computers with his siblings, and will probably end up sending his back in order to avoid all the writing recquired to keep it. My youngest daughter thoroughly enjoys her schoolwork. My oldest daughter is struggling with wanting to take the time away from Club Penguin to do the schoolwork (hold up her end of the bargain with the online school). My ds11 has already gone through the whole cycle of getting the computer/school books, keeping the computer for months without doing any schoolwork, and finally deciding that he didn't want to keep it after a longgggg very stressful struggle. He and his 7 year old ds claim that it is mean for the school to offer a computer if they are going to make you do the schoolwork. :)
>>>> If you are pushing them to do schoolwork and other things they would choose not to do, then its only natural that they would resist. And as long as they are using a lot of energy resisting, they won't be drawn to do other things that are challenging - they're working hard enough as it is. That's normal outside of radical unschooling. >>>
I don't push them to do *anything*. There are times when I need to go somewhere, and yes, it is a need, and they do not want to come. They want to go to their grandma's house (whom I have many issues with over her purposely making her house competitively desirable over mine).
I "make" them come with me. Plenty of other times, I'm not going far, and they can stay home.
I don't make them do housework, much to their father's chagrin. I don't make them do schoolwork. I don't make them cook. I don't make them help with the dog. I don't make them do anything.
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>>>> Radically unschooled kids actively choose to do difficult things. They actively choose to work hard, to struggle with projects and concepts. They do that because its natural for humans to learn, we're driven to learn! and a challenge is a wonderful way to learn - but only when its freely chosen, every single moment.>>>
I've seen this in the different projects they take on. Making diagrams, woodcutting, painting, writing speeches, etc...
>>>When humans, even young children, have the power to stop what they are doing at any time, its not uncommon that we will persevere in the face of trial. Its one of the wonders of human nature.>>>
I wish this were true with my kids. They play CP all day. From morning to night. They refuse to eat with us as a family most of the time, or go with me on errands, resulting in me putting off trips that *I* want to go on. They have no restrictions on their playtime, other than sharing with their siblings.
>>> Step away from what you would like your kids' "responsibilities" to be, and see what motivates them - what makes their eyes shine? What will they do for hours, even if they're hungry or antsy or needing to pee? Find more ways to offer and support those things, the chosen challenges of your children.>>>
I've been doing this.
>>> But you Can do whatever you want. You have the right to hit them, lock them up, withhold food and other services. You have the right to treat them like prisoners, and others parents will laud you for it. Why don't you?>>>
Because I love them.
>>> You are choosing to do what you do to nurture and support these magnificent other beings! So that they may grow to learn the true meaning of generosity, and care, and kindness. They won't learn that from being pushed to be "responsible".>>>
So you think that I should have no issues with them agreeing to doing something and backing out on an agreement?
>>> Someone mentioned taking care of yourself, and I agree. If you're feeling low, its hard to find reasons to reach out to others. What do you need? Not "what do you need from these people" but what are your needs? Break them down into bite sized pieces so that they are manageable. Then, by all means communicate some of them to your kids! Ask them for help and support - but asking means they get to say no.>>>
I agree. I need to figure out what my needs are. But it'll be a process. I have 6 chilren. My husband is out of town often. I do not have money for a babysitter. My mother watches them about once every 2 weeks. My MIL I have issues with about parenting that make me less than excited to ask her to keep the kids. I push myself to the limits to be an attachment/unschooling parent when it is just me that is interested in being one. My dh prefers traditional parenting.
>>>If they're used to being told "no" when they ask something of you, then you may hear a lot of "no" for awhile.>>>
My dh would get a kick out of that. MY kids are rarely told no.
>>>> Here's a thought - you are asking for something that you are denying them. You're saying "when can I stop? when can I choose for me?" And yet you rail that your kids want exactly that! Offer them something you Didn't get, the option of saying "no" the option of stopping something they don't want to do. It won't ruin them. Being told they are irresponsible and don't take good enough care of you will hurt them, just like being told (overtly or subtly) that he was "the bad kid" damaged your brother. >>>
Hmm... food for thought.
>>> It doesn't sound like you learned much about love and generosity from your family of origen. I'm sorry! Do little things for yourself, little acts of self-care, every day. Love yourself, and find things to love about your life, about your children. Give to yourself and to your children out of love and a desire to bring a little more joy into the world - not a "responsibility" to give love and joy, but because so often, those are things that you get by giving them.>>>
my family of origin was anything but compassionate. It was neglectful and abusive. I am doing amazingly compared to what statistics would predict for me, a low income, government housing child with a sexually abusive father, in and out (mostly in) of prison, and a mom too concerned with her own emotional well being to care for me or my brother.
I grew up being the responsible one. I have always mothered my mother and my brother. I endured physical and emotional torture and came out the gleaming tower of responsibility and good in spite of it. Then I married into a family at 17 whom looked at me as that "rejected little girl who needed 'saved' from herself because of how she'd been raised". I did not need that criticism. I was doing fine critcizing myself.
I have already started taking time for myself, with a once a week study night (when my dh is in town). I want to be involved with birth, and am studying to be a Childbirth Educator. It's not enough. I have thought of putting the kids in school again. (I went through a depression where they had to be in for 6 months.)
I just can't do it. I love them and don't want them to be miserable like they were during that time. It was a fight to get them on the bus, it was lots of talking to help them process the meanness they found there from kids and teachers. It wasn't the life that I want to live with my kids. Unschooling is worlds better.
But how do I find time for me when my only babysitting option is my MIL/FIL who's values in parenting and spirituality are so opposite mine? Ultimately, I fear that the kids will get used to being with their grandparents daily and prefer that, as I have previously experienced...
I'm a mess aren't I?
While I'm writing this, I can just hear your responses. Your relationship with your inlaws is seperate from the one they have with your kids. Let them keep them so that you can build yourself up and be more appealing to the kids.
It sounds like you are completely overwhelmed...
Value yourself, so your kids will feel safe to value themselves...
Sigh. I've still got a long way to go....
Thanks for letting me process this....
Michelle
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